My Head Hurts.....

This thread has appeared in the Daily News Record several times over the past year or so. The fight is between two veteran bloggers, Welder and Shannon Dove. I've entered the fray on occasion and here's an exchange contained in the the comments section of a recent letter to the editor that I wrote. Welder discounts the list of MSM sources that Shannon provides to back his arguments while only listing partisan "conservative" sources in response. My response to Welder is here, Shannon's is here. Read on.... (Welder is bold...)

RE 46: "Shannon would have us believe that all violent deaths in Iraq are the fault of George Bush and he supplies a list of news sources. "

Actually these are the dead people in Iraq since the invasion, and yes they are ALL the responsibility of George Bush. News sources report the deaths. The deaths reflect the dead people. Dead people is not one of the finer legacies of American Foreign Policy. The dead people are a result of the conquest of Iraq, period.

"No context is provided, nor are any of the killers identified."

The dead people were killed because of the invasion of Iraq. Securing the oil supply of a sovereign nation, by invasion and occupation is piracy. Casualties incurred are murder. We KNEW we would trigger an insurgency and we KNEW we would set a civil war in motion. It was a premeditated grab of resources, pure and simple.

"You would also have to be of the mind that no violent deaths occurred in Iraq pre Gulf 2; and that, of course, is ludicrous."

Right. GWB is not responsible for deaths and mayhem prior to the invasion.

"He hasn't proved anything and, of course, it is impossible to disprove a negative."

The only thing we're trying to prove here is that there a lots of dead Iraqi's, lots of dead American soldiers, and a few dead terrorists. The common thread here is LOTS OF DEATH, DESTRUCTION, RAPE, PILLAGE, AND MURDER, the cause of which is the conquest of Iraq and grabbing the oil. It's on our heads. It's my country too, and and what we are doing in Iraq is wrong.

"I could "extrapolate" that the global temperature is going to rise a degree next year, and I could probably provide a long list of "sources". Sorry, doesn't make it so."

Sources only back up the realities on the ground. There are lots of dead Iraqi's. They've been counted, they are being counted, and they are all .... dead. Of course, we haven't seen them or heard about them in our media, you have to find other SOURCES of information. I'm not making this up. I'm reading as many SOURCES AS I CAN FIND.

"And I'm already home. Net serve. Scott Ritter, in addition to being a pedophile, is pretty much shunned by his fellow Marines. You may value his opinion, I do not."

Right. Just call him a wuss and ignore him. He's the bearer of the wrong side of the story. He's only shunned by the group of marines that supports YOUR side. Name calling? Stupid argument.

"Iran could shut down the Strait for a few weeks, at best. That's the opinion of some "tip of the spear" guys, not a bunch of chair bound REMF's at the Pentagon. Unfortunately they don't post here, although they find you guys amusing."

Boots on the ground in Iran. The invasion of ANOTHER sovereign nation that is not a threat to us. No consideration of the collateral damage. ($300 a barrel oil?) Step bravely into another HELL HOLE. Of course we could reopen the Straits. This little SERVICE would make a lot more dead people, including a lot of dead Americans. And I repeat... the Iranians are NOT A THREAT to our security. They could, however, throw a major monkey wrench into the price of oil, and the forces now in Iraq would begin to feel the effects of those rockets that were demonstrated last week. OPEC would remove price controls... Chaos and mayem ensue....

"I don't much care if we drill or not, I don't have to pay for my gas. It is, however, becoming increasingly clear that the Dems are the party most responsible for our inability to tap our own resources. "

Nope. The only resource being blocked is the little bit of oil that's on the shore. Republicans are equally responsible because they don't want to lose the backing of the oil companies.

"As for getting all the bad guys together in one place so we could service them; it seems to have worked in Iraq. "

Nope. They just left the sinking ship and are all together now in Pakistan. Didn't work until we took over the role of Saddam and started paying off the insurgents to keep them from killing each other.

"So much for your argument, and your game for that matter."

It's your game that needs work. I need your source list please. What are you reading? It is important to do your homework. Knowledge is power. Secrets lie. I"m off to teach school now. Gonna find LOTS of sources and do LOTS of homework. Gonna teach those little minds to THINK and LEARN..... Later dude.

What's goin' on? Is there really a War?

The Iraq War, for it or against it, justified or unjustified, has not been reported fairly. On this point, everyone agrees. That the good news has not been shown is just as true as that the bad news has not been shown. The truth about just what has been reported is in question here.

The ACLU recently reported the extent to which the Pentagon has tightly controlled the flow of information that is available to the American Public. There are no photos of caskets, no battle field footage that hasn't been re-run thousands of times, no images of dead people. Read that last one again... no photos, videos or even realistic reporting about DEAD people. It's almost as if the war has been sanitized to the point that even the "official" casualty lists do not sound real. What's goin' on?

With all due respect to both sides of the debate, the American people have not ever yet truly participated in the experience of the war. We haven't seen dead soldiers return in flag draped coffins and we haven't been able to mourn them or truly honor their sacrifice. We haven't seen the extent of the human casualties both civilian and military, enemy and ally to truly appreciate the horror of what has been accomplished. We've only seen the scrubbed version of the war, the sanitized version that the Pentagon has gone to great lengths and considerable expense to present to us.

"At every step of the way, the Bush administration and Defense Department have gone to unprecedented lengths to control and suppress information about the human cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan," said Nasrina Bargzie, an attorney with the ACLU National Security Project. "Our democracy depends on an informed public and that is why it is so important that the American people see these documents. These documents will help to fill the information void around the issue of civilian casualties in Iraq and will lead to a more complete understanding of the prosecution of the war."

When the real sights and sounds, horror and bloodshed of the reality in Iraq finally become known, will history treat our government harshly or will it be regarded as a necessary component of modern war? Did the military truly learn the lesson of Vietnam in that the bloodshed, violence, and mayhem of war be hidden from the citizenry at all cost? We're there, we're not leaving, and we the people are ignorant of the true cost in blood and sacrifice.

Yes, we do not hear the good news, but neither do we hear the bad. I fear that the war WILL go on forever, as long as the official Pentagon version of the events in Iraq is all we hear. I fear that the citizens of this country will not be stirred to truly rise up against it, because we’ve been anesthetized to it's horror. I fear that the horrible reality of war has been transformed into glorious conquest in a cruel attempt to justify it's fearful cost.